Cybersecurity Is Like Soccer

all right all right all right welcome back to b-sides delaware day two 2021 we are all virtual this year for our 12th year but hopefully not for long my name is rando i am your mc again for the day and um i have more energy today than i did yesterday because i didn't really talk at all but this is not about me this is about our next presenter he is mr john stoner uh he's going to talk about cyber security is actually a lot like soccer john take it away sir all right good morning everybody thanks for being here thanks to b-sides delaware for having me i am super excited to present this talk um so

hopefully you have some coffee or some other things to keep you going this morning monster energy drinks you know tequila whatever whatever you need i'm at one mr stoner on twitter i'm on twitter all the time so i'm not going to spend a lot of time on my background real quick i was in the army for 10 years doing signals intelligence for about 11 or so years i've been really focused in cyber security mostly in the dod space i've had a whole bunch of different roles i hold a whole bunch of different certifications but more importantly is i have 36 years of soccer experience i know more about soccer than literally any other subject at all i also am a us certified soccer

coach so i'm super excited to give this presentation to combine two of my passions soccer and cyber security this is mostly going to be a less technical presentation but i think the really important one is uh we use all the soccer analogies to sort of explain some things in cyber security that i think are really important sort of on the human training aspects so i want to start off talking about personnel this is one of the things i care a lot about and if you're new to cyber security you're thinking about getting in cyber security this is probably a really good presentation for you if you manage people in the cyber security space this is probably an

excellent presentation and if you fall into one of those categories you should be taking some notes so write some things down okay all right the first thing that's really important is that within cyber security there's at least 50 specializations if not more right so i often use a lot of medical world analogies to help describe cyber security as well but we have so many different things you can do in cyber security that when you're starting out it can definitely feel overwhelming and i know that adds to the imposter syndrome that a lot of people face who are just getting into this field and really there's two general types of people in cyber security we have people

who focus on one particular area and become very deep technical or non-technical experts but become specialists in that area and then we have sort of these broad all-encompassing personnel who've done a lot of different things across their career and in soccer we have the same thing in soccer we have super specialists like a domitra ore who currently plays for the wolves who's like super strong and one of the fastest players in the premier league right he is going to do very particular things on the soccer pitch that milner is not going to do it liverpool right but milner can play multiple positions he can play center defensive midfielder he's filled in at center back for liverpool when all of our center

backs were injured last season he can play right back he was actually a right winger originally i can probably put milner in any position on the team and have him be pretty successful but he can't do what treyori can do right that's a deep level of of specialization as a very speedy attacking direct player that is going to do that and i can't play trerorie at center back i can't ask him to play out of position it's not going to work right there are specialists and there are generalists and i want to talk about this a little bit more this is a big part of this presentation because when i am you know seeing people pop up on twitter or i

meet them at events like a b-sides event and they at you know they're looking for some guidance if they're new in their career or maybe they're maybe they're not just starting out but they're thinking about maybe their next step in their career right we get into these conversations about professional development and sorts of training that you ought to do so the just some examples of some some really deep specialists that come to mind for me malware analysts reverse malware engineers right and then that rabbit hole goes deeper depending on where you work right if you work at like a fortune 10 bank you may have some teams that analyze malware and maybe you know you

have some sophisticated threat actors who've attempted to use malware on your network then you sort of like you know you and your buddy you know you just analyze whatever malware comes in that day but in my world you may have some like really deep technical expertise and that person she is the malware reverse engineer for chinese advanced persistent threat actors and that's what she does all day every day and while she might fill in if like billy the russian malware engineers on ptl or got hit by a bus she won't have that same deep technical level of knowledge about the russian threat actors as she does on the chinese threat actors dfir analysts right that's a very

specialized field right it's a very specialized field and just like coutinho i need to have these players in the right positions in the right organizations coutinho is a free kick specialist an offensive creative force he's not that big he's not that strong right he's similar to pierlo and pierlo used to play that attacking creative fluid playmaker i have to play them on offense they're not going to play defense they may have heard of defense but they really don't do that right so i have to ensure that i know who these specialists are right i don't want to have the malware person and then ask them to try to go do some red teaming right those are different

specializations those technical specialists have to work in those technical fields right and you can eventually change specialists this doesn't mean you can never change specialists which i'll talk about later but this is just an example specialist then you have generalists i think the best example of a cyber security generalist is a sock analyst and also while we're on this topic it is neither better or worse to be a specialist or generalist right it is it is not derogatory to say i am a generalist i do a lot of different things in cyber security right so i also want to make sure no one is thinking that that's what i mean right the malware analyst is very valuable for

what they do right if i work at a dod agency i need jill to analyze the chinese advanced persistent threat malware and i need that level of expertise if i'm you know at a new startup and we have stock analysts i need really skillful sock analysts who might be able to tackle sort of any problem that comes into the sock right so they're a generalist they're going to develop technical expertise but not like super deep focused on like one particular thing you also see these job ads all the time and i know you see them cyber security analysts we are hiring a cyber security analyst right and then the job description makes it look like it's

seven people's jobs well if you are in a role like that where you're just asked to tackle lots of different things then you're in the generalist bucket right i often describe a lot of the dod policy analysts i work with right the people who work in the policy realm right they don't just work on ransomware policy right they're working on lots of different policies they're the people who like you know maybe try to make cmmc make more sense um they're the people who are like working on like nist 800 171 or nist 853 right they may be asked to look at interagency agreements does does nsa have the right authorities versus what sis is trying to do right so

these policy analysts are generalists they need a lot of information and knowledge and skills about probably lots of different areas of cyber security so they're not a specialist i would also argue your your technical leaders technical program managers directors cios cizos issms issos those are generalists they need to know a lot of different things about the cyber security space and domain right so like my man captain of liverpool henderson i swear you could put this bloke anywhere on the pitch and he is going to do a super adequate job right now if you play him in his center defensive midfield position he's going to be pretty good right he's probably not the best center defensive midfielder in the world but

he's pretty good at that position but if you ask him to play up further up the pitch to be more of a creative force he's going to do that he also filled in at center back when like every single one of our center backs was injured last year right i could ask henderson to kind of play anywhere on the pitch and he's going to do an adequate job same with david alba like if you've never seen this this guy played before like he's amazing he is like a really really excellent defender but he will often push up into a creative play-making like attacking role as well i could probably ask alva to play anywhere on the soccer

pitch and he's going to do a pretty good job right i can't ask coutinho to play defense like it won't work he is a specialist he is not a generalist specialist generalists we have this insider security it is rarely discussed and i think it's super rarely under discussed especially when we are advising personnel on career paths that are available to them training whether it's formal training university training certifications boot camps we don't think about all the different specializations and jobs that are available because there's lots of really deep technical specialists and there's lots of generalist type roles as well just since this is about soccer and cyber security right like james milner like a pretty pretty solid all-around

player you can see the the fifa sort of chart there at the bottom but you can see he doesn't really have any special specialities like his speciality is like i can kind of do everything right as opposed to coutinho right he's got acrobat as a speciality right like milner is not an acrobat like it's just not going to happen he's also more physical to continue now he's certainly not as fast but we can also see coutinho really sort of like maybe has heard about what defense is but doesn't really do it whereas milner can play defense he can also dribble and pass but he's not quite as good as shot as coutinho he's not as creative he's not as fast he's

right different players and coutinho is a specialist right here's another example of this just to drive the point home a little bit like an ir or dfir specialist versus a sock analyst right i think a soccer analyst is is the quintessential example of a generalist for the purposes of what i'm explaining right so again it's going to depend on the sock you're involved in the size of the company um you know are you a tier one talk analyst tier two sock analyst right you're gonna have to deal with lots of different things that come into the sock right now an ir specialist maybe is also pretty broad but they're going to be pretty deep into the ir realm of skills

and you know knowledge skills and abilities ksas that an ir specialist needs to know right and if you look really what a sock analyst might have to deal with they might have to deal with anything right so it's a lot different roles and they're both really critical right all of these roles are critical for the teams and organizations that employ these types of personnel you have your specialists and your generalists so the other thing that i'm going to spend some time on is about training professional development i see this happen on twitter all the time something along the lines of hey i just got my security plus certification what certification should i get next that is

a terrible question and the people that answer you on twitter are not people you should listen to if their answer is like oh you should get ch next what is it that you do at work where do you want to work what would you like to do in your career those are the next questions before i can give you an actual answer as to what training you should go to next right so there are specialist trainings and certifications in this world and there are generalist certifications in training i have only included a few here there's lots of different resources that are good when you are talking about professional development right but like i see people talk about oh i'm gonna get

my ejpt right but they don't work as a pen tester and maybe they aren't really working towards becoming a pen tester so why are you taking pen tester certifications right it doesn't make any sense at the macro level unless you have a goal to become a pen tester well then it would make sense right nobody should just go get oscp just so they can have it if it's not relevant to either what they like to do in their free time or you know they work as an independent you know pen tester outside of their work or if it's related to work right you shouldn't just go get an oscp because it's a well-known certification right

and again like there's specialists like i grew up watching jorge compost play for the mexican national team who was a goalkeeper striker goalkeeper slash striker for both the mexican team and his club teams right that's a specialist he can both be the shot stopper and also score goals there has pretty much not been another example of him as far as i know in the whole world and it's like di maria over at psg like he's a great problem for psg right now although they have a lot of problems because you can't take him off the pitch because he's a fantastic winger but how do you get di maria and bape um now messi and neymar all on the pitch

because none of those people play defense i can't have four people on the on the pitch and none of them play defense i mean at least mbappe pretends to play defense none of the others play defense they don't even pretend neymar and and messi in particular neymar will sometimes play defense for brazil but that's a different story right those are specialists specialists and you have generalists like if you're studying network plus or security plus there's a lot of information regardless of how you're studying whether you just have the book you're doing self-study you know you go to something like professor messer you take a college course that covers that material or a boot camp the

material contained in order to pass those certifications are broadly applicable right network plus will tell you all about networking security plus is going to cover a whole bunch of domains related to cyber security right so will casp so we'll see issp it is a broad cyber security management certification just like schism right so if you're sort of on a generalist path or like maybe your goal is to become a scissor or like a a virtual ciso or a director a technical manager then these sorts of broad generalist certifications will make a lot of sense to you because they will cover a lot of really broad cyber security topics that you will need to manage a diverse team

of really highly technical people right so if you're if you are you know a stock tier 2 analyst right now and thinking i've done my time in the sock i want to you know do something else i don't love being in the sock um then your training and professional development should match where you want to go as a career and you need to think about which sorts of technical specialization fields are available that interest you and which sorts of cyber security generalist fields are available and and target your personal training plan appropriately based on whether it's a specialist or generalist field is to you know is your end goal like emery chan for example a former liverpool

player like he's like a sort of uh not quite as good version of henderson um and you can play him all over like he's pretty pacey he's pretty physical he's pretty technical he can play some defense he can definitely play some offense you could probably put him anywhere on the pitch and like he would do a pretty accurate uh adequate job and like derosie for italy like i swear to god you could probably play him in any freaking position you wanted on the pitch and he would be amazing like you could put him in goal he would do okay maybe not luigi buffon level of like good but like you know i just feel that

you could put some of these players anywhere into the soccer team and they would be value added right they're not specialists right they're like the rosie is not gonna do what di maria can do out on the wing right but i can't ask di maria to play center midfield it's just not going to work it's just not his position right he is a specialist there are generalists as we're talking about the training you could be working in a particular area let's say as a cyber threat intel analyst which is kind of what i know the most about and you want to continue training as a cyber threat intelligence person like you want to increase knowledge skills or abilities in the

same technical field right so we are now tweaking your focus areas in cyber security right do i want to be more technical do i want to be able to do some of the initial reverse malware analysis that my job requires are we looking at pcaps and i want to be better at pcap analysis within my role as a cti analyst do i want to become a better report writer do i want to become a better presenter right those are all sorts of skills that depending on your particular role as a cti analyst in your organization and team or tweaking areas so you become better at the specialization that you're working in right so like you know the person on the

screen here from fifa like we do this all the time in soccer like i am a left wing do i want to slightly tweak my left wing skills and abilities right and do i want to be more of a wide play maker do i want to like cut inside more and like drive the goal more so i want to work on my shooting right because working on my shooting and working on my crossing are two very different things both can be related to my role right it depends like what does the team need what is my manager telling me i should work on like am i a winger but we like are often getting like hammered by

the other team so like the coach wants me to work on my defensive positioning and my tackling a little bit right so like that's normally not a winger's main skill but i could still improve that and still be a winger but i would be start to become maybe a little bit more versatile right so you can tweak areas in the ksas for your particular specialization or job that you have right and and you could take any cyber security area and apply the same mentality as far as like tweaking your skills and training and what also you can do and this is really important especially if you're newer in the field or just breaking in is developing new expertise so i have

career changes right you can also think about this as lateral movement to a related but different expertise lots of people who work in cyber security have overlapping ksas we have overlapping knowledge skills and abilities right so a lot of what i do in cyber threat intelligence might be related to oceant open source intelligence and an ocean analyst and a cyber threat intelligence analyst probably have a lot of overlapping skills that a new dfir or ir analyst digital forensics investigate uh incident response dfir um might have some overlapping skills that you would need to move into an entry level right dfir role a dfir analyst might have a lot of overlapping skills with like a a true ir

analyst right someone who like really is just ir um i would argue that those are still kind of two different things i think dfir analysts are a little bit more broad and an ir analyst is a little bit more specialized right you could say that those all have some overlapping skills with maybe a forensics analyst right so how do i go from i am an oceant analyst today doing a lot of open source information searching and reports to like being a forensics analyst well you would figure out what knowledge skills and abilities that field and those jobs need and you would develop the new expertise through a personalized training plan to develop that right you

can't just apply i can't work as an ocean analyst do nothing and apply for an entry level dfir position because you'll never get hired right that's not how these things work so um so we can do the same thing in soccer all the time right you might have alexander arnold here who plays for liverpool in england he's a right back but he kind of really seems to like the offensive side of the world side of the pitch right like with his crosses with his free kicks like he has a lot of offensive skills to the game so maybe at some point you know his coaches and he decide he should actually be a right winger right so that's a much more

offensive focused person on the soccer field now he's currently behind mohamed salah at liverpool so he's probably not going to be a right winger for them right now but like maybe he plays right winger when he's called up to the england national squad right because they have a ton of right back it's actually a huge problem with the england team how many left and right backs they have um so maybe he plays more as a right winger with them right i mean that's possible but then he's gonna have to develop the skills to become a right winger he's gonna have to improve his shooting his his one-on-one ability to dribble past the defender right he doesn't really have that right

he's very speedy so if there's an open lane on the outside of the pitch he'll go down it but he's not like beating defenders one-on-one most of the time he's not a jack reelish or a phil foden sort of character or pulisic um go usa by the way with that important win over mexico last night so like you can do this throughout your career so like you might be an ocean analyst and then you take some training go to uh go to some conferences like do some do some um you know training at the conferences maybe get a certification maybe you go back to school and and you develop some skills that are necessary to get an

entry-level forensics job right and then you tweak your resume which is a whole other topic we're not getting into right now you tweak the resume explain what it is and why you're applying for a forensics position and you can have career changes across specializations and i've known people who have done this who like every couple of years like reinvent themselves through focused training and development to change specializations and those people will make the best sorts of scissors you've ever worked for because they will have worked a variety of different jobs as well right so that's another way to think about your development as you think about your 10 or 15 or 20 year plan for where you want

your career to maybe sort of peak so to speak right if i've worked as an ocean analyst and then i've worked as a dfir analyst and then i've done some forensics and then i was a cyber security analyst sort of tackling anything and then i did some policy because that was sort of really needed at the time and then i'm 15 years into my career you know maybe then i start to look at technical manager roles with the goal of eventually becoming like a sisso or something right you're never going to be able to work all 50 or 70 specializations in cyber security i also know people who have done one very focused thing for the majority of

their career right some people are penetration testers that is the thing that they love to do and they will be a penetration tester pretty much for their whole lives right there are people who are forensics analysts and even within the forensics analyst there are certain you know focus areas and i've known people who have like been a a very um sort of focused uh forensics analyst but maybe as iot becomes a new thing they develop some more technical skills around forensics analysis of iot devices right but they're still in the forensics world and they always will be there's no right or wrong way to shape your career in cyber security but it does need to be

thought of and shaped in three to five year stints and with an end goal in mind so that you're on the appropriate glide path for where you want your career to go are we you know sort of oops i clicked off my slide are we tweaking focus areas for the job we have or are we developing new expertise for sort of you know linear moves across specializations that's the level of information that you and your mentor should be talking to so don't go on twitter and say hey what certification should i get next that's a terrible question don't ask that question find mentors have these love have this level of conversation with your mentors so that your training plan

and career can go in the right direction right so again we can talk about individual analysis as well uh my buddy andy piazza actually has given some talks about doing some individual analysis on yourself as you set out on this of like you know sort of rating yourself of like i'm really good at these technical things maybe i'm i'm weaker in this area so that can help you to figure out a training plan for both the job you're in now and perhaps for where you want to go if you want to change specializations right so we again this is what happens in soccer all the time i might have i might have a player who you know wants

to play striker because a lot of players want to play up front and try to score goals but if they if they don't have the qualities for that you can make individual training plans and this is something that u.s soccer taught me in my licensing course for coaching right once you get to a certain level like high school or you know pretty competitive travel teams the coaches should be putting individual training development plans together for the players who want to play at that sport who want to play at this sport at that competition level right they're taking it that seriously right so you may have a striker and you hear this all the time like you can't teach speed you

actually can teach speed like there are skills to improve quickness um so like maybe you decide like you you're never going to be the absolute fastest person but maybe you need to work on sprints right so we come up with a plan if it's a physical thing like you need to be a little bit faster to get to the ball right maybe it's shooting maybe shooting with your non-dominant foot right like a striker really needs to be able to shoot with both feet right my my center attacking midfielder my midfielder my wingers okay maybe i don't expect them to be amazing right everybody's not going to be leonol messi or di maria right but my main striker if you want to

be like you know the main guy at striker then you need to be able to shoot with both feet even if your non-dominant foot is never quite as good as your dominant foot or maybe you want to be in like more of the firmino model as a false nine well then it's about link up play then you gotta like really improve like your ability to see the field anticipate what's going to happen do the quick little touches that's all that creativity that's coutinho that's pierlo that's for menio right that's a different type of a striker what is it that you want to improve and then you can rate yourself and improve those particular things for your career

or you know your soccer skills and then there's the whole team analysis so this is sort of the next level right so we have teams this is going to depend a lot on what industry you're in what size of an organization what level of cyber security maturity they're at is it a startup in los angeles is it you know a fortune 10 company a fortune 500 company a a department within the federal government a state department all of these things play into the team what is the team responsible for what are our strengths and weaknesses what individual people on my team can i bring to different problem sets right as a as a leader then you should

be thinking about this even if your team does one thing let's say i'm only in charge of cyber threat intelligence analysts let's say i have 10 cyber threat intelligence analysts at a large you know fortune 20 financial institution right well i still may have people that are better at different things even though we're all doing cyber threat intelligence right i might have some really technical people that are like super good when we have to analyze some stuff coming in from uh linux systems right i might have somebody who like just kills it when it comes to like smartphones android ios right they just that might just be the thing and they're like really good at that i might know

someone who knows like everything about um you know fin seven for whatever reason so like if anything comes in about one of the financial organized crime groups like we give it to to um jeff because jeff just has you know followed them for a long time uh maybe we have someone else who's more of a generalist than the cyber threat intel team and i know amy really likes new challenges so when we get something and we don't really know who to give it to we give it to amy first because she really likes having to work on new stuff all the time because i'm a good leader and i've actually talked to her and maybe her plan is to like

move off the cyber threat intel team to do some other things so she wants to try to get exposed to as many different sorts of things we deal with as possible but i would need to actually have some team analysis and not be a shitty manager so i can actually manage the team properly man management we all hear this in sports all the time man management do you know your team do you know what they want to do do you know where they want to go do you know what their training path is if you're not a good manager you won't know and then people will just quit and everybody's unhappy and you don't know

why because you're not spending the cycles to actually have effective man management for the people you're in charge of and let me tell you in my personal experience most managers aren't good at this and there's a reason there's a lot of turnover in our field when most people leave a job they primarily say it's because of their immediate supervisors that they left the job this is another huge problem not just in this field but since i work in cyber security i will apply it specifically to this field we need a lot better management training as well so that we can manage the teams better so that we are helping the people on our team get

the professional training and ensure they're on the career path that's helpful to them it won't stop turnover they're still going to be poaching i mean if amy has been with the team for 18 months and seems to be enjoying it but like you know another competing firm comes in and offers her 30 more salary if we don't match that she should go and that's the reality of the role we work in what's our strategy for the team like what strategy overall right this kind of ties all in together what's what's our strategy for our cyber security team right do i have a plan overall for what i what i will do if there is turnover do i have a training

plan how do i onboard new people so they feel they're part of the team that i make sure that they have the technical skills necessary like let's say i on average on my 10 person cyber threat intel team lose one person every 18 months right there's just a turnover these are very high demand people they have a lot of in-demand skills and i just tend to have a turnover of at least one maybe maybe some of that's internal right maybe some of it's internal for a really large organization but every 18 months i'm sort of bringing on a new person well if that's a if that's a constant thing that i'm doing i should have some

some playbook some uh standard operating procedures some sops some guides right do i have sort of right seat training on the job training make sure that they know which tools we use how our reports are written if i don't have this level of plan that turnover is a lot more burdensome because i haven't effectively onboarded the new person to be part of the team both being part of the team and welcoming them and making sure they feel integrated especially if we're virtual right now but also technically integrating them into the team into our processes how we do things what tools we have access to do they have the right accounts do they have a computer did it

get shipped to that do that can they log into email do they need access badges all that kind of stuff team strategy excuse me if i'm lester i might win the premier league and surprise everybody one year but i'm never gonna be man city i'm never gonna be man city if i'm lester and if i'm man city i hope i'm never lester right and that affects everything that affects everything if i'm psg i can just buy the best players and put them on the field if i'm benefica i can't do that right and most companies and organizations that you work with are a lot more like benefica than psg right psg is basically like fortune 5

right psg man city barcelona real bayern right maybe it used to be manu there's very few teams that can operate at that model very few that can operate at that model there's a whole lot of teams that operate on whole smaller budgets and maybe instead of always trying to find somebody when you need a person at the pay range for your geographic area maybe a better way would be to like have more paid internships paid internships pay your interns paid internships that result in us having a pipeline of talent that we kind of know them so there's a little less risk to hire them because we've known them and they're going to show up and

they're going to do good work right and then we have a career path because then we can bring people in and they can get promoted right but a lot of companies just never have invested the time or cycles to kind of think about this process and it's a contributing factor as to why hiring is completely broken across cyber security but if you had this sort of well thought out plan to backfill every 18 months that cyber threat intelligence person that gets turned over or the tier one stock analyst that like we just kind of tend to lose one every six months maybe because it's pretty intense all right man and maybe we're a smaller organization or a pay isn't quite as

competitive but it's the best we can do for a tier one stock analyst it's like we just have a quite a bit of turnover like maybe there are other ways to think about talent recruiting and talent management and maybe the stock analyst just quit because you have no plan for their career development so you just hire them into the stock analyst and then a year later when they update their resume they're just getting poached because you've never talked to them about what the next steps are and you don't offer them any career development there's all sorts of team overall organizational strategies that can be done that rarely are being done most of us aren't psg most of us are

benefica and overall if you're in charge of strategy and management you would it would be beneficial for you to consider some of these options and really think through your strategy specialists the reason i know who this player is because he was routinely the strongest person on fifa he's a striker he's now 39 or 40 he's probably in his last season i also know because he plays at asc wimbledon which if you don't know about ac wimbledon and you like soccer you should check it out john green plays a whole bunch of their uh afc wimbledon on fifa it's very entertaining um he's a specialist he's a really strong hold up striker right he's not running by anybody

he's just not running by anybody um akin of fenwa and womback play the same position she's now retired from the national team in soccer they were both strikers they don't look the same that's one thing that soccer is you get a lot of different players on the pitch that play the same positions that also don't look the same but she's a specialist right she was the person you brought on if you needed to score a goal eating the game she was good in the air she was has a big physical presence but she's not going to like run by people you're not going to play over the top she's not jamie vardy payette i miss watching payette in the

epl right free kick specialist very offensive um possibly has heard of what defense was is not going to play defense i can't have him play center midfield right he needs to play in his very particular position same with lamar speedy outside if you want a speedy outside person he's probably one of the best five to ten players in the world for what he does for what he does because he is a specialist you got generalists and some of you are like how is harry kane especially how's harry kane a generalist he's a striker he's a striker that can basically play as a center attacking midfielder he can play as a false nine um the spurs

unfortunately for my significant partner you know are not having a great season um but like he's done all sorts of things that like other strikers aren't gonna do he can make the pass he can be less selfish monet um juan mata who i think is still on the man united roster even though i don't think he's played any minutes like you could probably put him in anywhere n'golo kante pretty much plays anywhere on the pitch covers more pitch than anybody else he's one of the best players in the world i would i would love it for him to win the ballon d'or um you could ask kante to play anywhere on the pitch and you would probably get

a super super good performance anywhere uh marta for brazil i think she just competed in like her fifth or sixth olympics it was like a record um i think she's 42 i don't think she's retired yet from the brazil team um but like you could ask her to play anywhere anywhere and you would get an adequate performance all right last slide before we get some questions individual career progression pep guardiola is arguably the best likely a number two

i hope i'm oh my discord just did some crazy stuff yeah you're uh you're streaming no you're stream ended can you share again yeah uh bear with us besides delaware well we uh hammer out some uh hey there we go yeah it was weird just like crashed that's fine are we good yeah we're good good all right so last slide and then we'll see if there's any questions so pep guardiola arguably the world's best manager um i think clot maybe is number two um greg burkholter is not in the top 50. i can't believe the us team keeps hiring these trash coaches guardiola was a center defensive midfielder but he played as a play maker

right so he would take the ball out of the back out of defense and then look to progress the ball down the field as you know as that first part of the attack right so it was a very technically skilled ball playing attacking player who also had a lot of technical qualities as a defender right and then he became a manager right and we know that a lot of players michael jordan who become managers aren't good managers right it just doesn't work most of the time but aaron robin who's one of the world's best soccer players ever says gloriola was the best coach right he coached messi he coached iniesta he's now coaching phil foden sterling like all of

these great players and he's making really technical players better i thought like jesus and sterling's career were sort of plateauing as offensive players so like as you think about your career what is your individual career progression like do i want to continue to be a technical expert right and like i am payet i am econofenua i am trey orrey or do you sort of mature based on the needs of the team and how your career and like you become a james milner right i've played a lot of different positions i've played right back i've played center back i've played right wing i've played midfielder i've played center defensive midfielder because milner might make a fantastic coach at some

point because he's played a lot of different positions on the pitch he really understands the totality of the game right and the other thing i think that's worth noting which i kind of talked about already is if you don't have good managers then it's going to be hard for you to retain good players right the best managers in the world have players and the best players who want to play for them right i think that while i like the fact that nuno spiritual desantis was the spurs coach i don't think he had the respect of the players because he just wasn't a world-class manager so you know unfortunately they had to fire him and go get kante right i think it's why menu

is having some problems like i think if zinedine zidane came into manhu he would immediately command respect from pogba and sancho and fred and ronaldo and like that team probably would immediately be better so like if you want to be a pep guardiola at the end and be one of the best sizzos or best managers in the world you really need to work on all of that work on your technical cyber security skills but then work on your man management work on social skills active listening how do i deal with the people in the team what's my um my method for solving problems so that's my last slide about career progression i will now attempt to take questions as

long as discord does not crash on me and once again thanks to besides delaware for having me today i'm on twitter uh you can find me on linkedin i'm not the john stoner at splunk that's a different person i'm the john stoner at buzan hamilton right now uh so john i am now monitoring the track one chat q a and our very own besides janus says thinking if the good managers versus bad managers analogy to security in leadership i'd be curious what kinds of other mistakes are made in soccer that align with organizational security mistakes or mistakes that infosec practitioners make tr i would say a thing that comes to mind is you have to know the personnel in your

system and like we see this in american football a lot you'll hear the term like systems coach you have this in soccer as well you have systems coaches like barcelona just went and rehired one of their best players on earth xavi um because they weren't able to play the barcelona way under ronald cumin right because he was having them do other things and it wasn't the way barcelona wanted to play so they went to go get a coach that knows the barcelona system um lester are always going to be a counter-attacking team right they're not going to be possession-based team so i know it's a long-winded way of answering the question but like you have

to understand your team and the function right and the system and the strategy so that whatever you're doing in cyber security can be most effective right so i i think that goes back into a lot of both technical skills knowledge and abilities that people on your team have versus having management and leaders who understand the people on the team so that we can most effectively utilize them for whatever our particular mission is and lastly are you measuring things for success right this is a big topic right now and it pops off on the socials all the time like and the government's really bad at this and i can say that i'm like we want everybody back because how do i know

you're working if you're not here it was like if your measure of success is i'm present that's not a good measure of success to know if the people on your team are effective it's like what other metrics do you have to know if both individually and as a team we are doing well or how do you know that we aren't doing well right it's just because you see me here at work does not mean i am working there's a lot of people i work with that are really good at looking busy and not doing anything right versus super efficient people super efficient people who are really good at their job but maybe like don't seem like they're working all the time

because they're just more efficient i don't know if that 100 answered the question but yeah and also that brings to mind of like well how do you know that i'm working have i been working this entire past year is it okay okay well that's how you know uh like the like like the question answers itself uh at a certain point um like again that's the management like did you think i was working like if i if i have been doing a good job like you should know that but if i haven't you should know that and then they and then they'll naturally respond with well yes you have been working having a good job how do you

know that oh well you did blah blah blah blah well there's your metrics and now you answered your own question again like it's one of the stupidest things um let's see uh somebody else in chat said uh i don't nearly oh by the way your answer for janice was good um i don't know nearly as much about soccer as you but can definitely appreciate your passion about soccer and your related uh um insights into job roles i didn't know there was so much involved with soccer john quite honestly i will tell you um i just i never thought like i was like oh they flop around a lot but your your passion for and your explanation i was

like i'm gonna go watch soccer now well tuesday we have an important match against jamaica so like we're we need to qualify for the world cup this time because we didn't last time so we won against mexico last night which was big but we have another big match against jamaica if we can win that one we should be good to qualify for the world cup what do you think so i was having a conversation and real quick we got we got about three minutes um i was having a conversation with uh mike murray from uh scope security and we were we were chatting about how and i'm not sure if you watch like do you watch

ted lasso i have not we're going to binge it when i have my daughter for thanksgiving so i've seen some clips i know about it okay i i mean naturally because hey soccer uh but also what mike was saying is like not only is it interesting because of that and and it's written well but it's a really great show about management uh and management techniques so uh my wife watched the whole thing i only seen a couple episodes it's really good um but i thought because soccer um so yeah countries are in this country yeah uh so yeah uh other than that no we don't i don't see any more questions in the q a there is the track

one uh post uh post q a where you can go in on a voice channel if anybody wants to hang out in there um and we are going to be breaking for lunch now until 1pm i believe um so yeah go grab a bite to eat everybody and uh besides the back john thank you so much man you were awesome